Containing 5,403 Articles Spanning 369 Topics
Ex-Mormon News, Stories And Recovery
Online Since January 1, 2005
|
|
PLEASE NOTE:
If you have reached this page from an outside source such as an
Internet Search or forum referral, please note that this page
(the one you just landed on)
is an archive containing articles on
"BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD - SECTION 2".
This website,
The Mormon Curtain
- is a website that blogs the Ex-Mormon world. You can
read
The Mormon Curtain FAQ
to understand the purpose of this website.
⇒
CLICK HERE to visit the main page of The Mormon Curtain.
|
| |
BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD - SECTION 2
Total Articles:
14
Mormons dress in 19th century Masonic clothes - perform Masonic rituals twisted into Mormon necrotic ceremonies wherein they pronounce your name aloud - and confirmed you baptized AND as a member of the Mormon Cult (with the words, "who is dead" inserted). This all done within a paying ?members-only? temple in absolute secrecy.
|
|
This one got me set off many years ago, in a discussion with a RS President, who insisted that if she were not baptised in the LDS church (Mother Teresa), no matter how righteous she had been (and truly Christlike in my opinion), this woman was NOT going to the Celestial Kingdom.
I just never got it. I have often wondered about the origin of Christian Baptism before John the Baptist. Was he influenced by the Essenes, or some other group, or even through the silk trade to India and the Hindu practices of washing in the River Ganges.???
I understand it as a symbol, an outward ordinance of an inner change to be christ-like. As far as I could tell Jesus was telling us to be christ-like to follow his words in our personal lives. I always used to quote the NT case of those two guys baptising in Jesus' name, and the Apostles got very hung up about it, to be told off by Jesus, because they were losing the point about what baptism was all about. I think he said something like, if they are for me, they are not against me.
So.....I think, that a person can be christ-like without even being a christian. That being christ-like transends the person of Jesus of Nazereth, because it is a way of being. (Hope ya'll don't think I am being too blasphemous here - I know what I mean, but doesn't always come across well in print).
So, I think the LDS religion makes important something that is not important. That it is the manner of living that is imperative not the outward ordinance.
I don't think I'll be showing my little chitty to them people on the pearly gates, I just don't think that that is what it is all about..
Credits: Misstaken
|  | Family History Expert Says Vicarious Work Okay For Non-Relatives "If The Spirit Directs"
Friday, May 8, 2009, at 07:56 AM
Original Author(s): Public Denial Private Practice
Topic: BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD - SECTION 2 -Guid- | ↑ | Though official church policy prohibits performing vicarious work for non-relatives, a prominent family history expert just told me that the spirit trumps church policy.
He said where an individual gets a spiritual confirmation to do the work of a non-relative, it should be nonetheless.
He said that upon the spirit's prompting, he has prepared names and done vicarious work for non-relatives in the past. He said he will continue to prepare and perform such work when prompted and will advise others to do the same under similar circumstances regardless of the negative publicity brought on by the news of Obama's mother.
Joseph Smith used to say the same thing about marrying multiple women.
| | | Mormons Deny Baptizing US Founding Fathers, But Here's Official Picture And Story From LDS Site
Friday, May 8, 2009, at 08:02 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD - SECTION 2 -Guid- | ↑ | Today the Salt Lake Tribune documented Mormon Church claims that the US Founding Fathers are all Mormons now, because they appeared to a Prophet in the temple to be baptized into the church.
See:
http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_1231050...
The LDS response is laughable. Some have have denied it. but here's the official story and picture from an official LDS site:
http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/pr...
The LDS Church is still teaching this gospel truth, that the Founding Fathers are now Mormons because they requested and received Mormon baptism.
So why deny it? They should just embrace their marvelous work and wonder!
| | | Mormon Apostles Make No Apologies For Plan To Baptize Ever Dead Person That Ever Lived
Monday, May 11, 2009, at 07:50 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD - SECTION 2 -Guid- | ↑ | While the Mormon Church PR department is offering denials and making excuses, this is what the church has been telling its members for years:
Now there is another characteristic that identifies His Church and also has to do with baptism. There is a very provoking and a very disturbing question about those who died without baptism. What about them? If there is none other name given under heaven whereby man must be saved - and that is true, and they have lived and died without even hearing that name, and if baptism is essential - and it is, and they died without even the invitation to accept it, where are they now?
That is hard to explain. It describes most of the human family.
There are several religions larger than most Christian denominations, and together they are larger than all of them combined. Their adherents for centuries have lived and died and never heard the word baptism. What is the answer for them?
That is a most disturbing question. What power would establish one Lord and one baptism, and then allow it to be that most of the human family never comes within its influence? With that question unanswered, the vast majority of the human family must be admitted to be lost, and against any reasonable application of the law of justice or of mercy, either. How could Christianity itself be sustained?
When you find the true church you will find the answer to that disturbing question.
If a church has no answer for that, how can it lay claim to be His Church? He is not willing to write off the majority of the human family who were never baptized.
Those who admit in puzzled frustration that they have no answer to this cannot lay claim to authority to administer to the affairs of the Lord on the earth, or to oversee the work by which all mankind must be saved.
We have been authorized to perform baptisms vicariously so that when they hear the gospel preached and desire to accept it, that essential ordinance will have been performed. They need not ask for any exemption from that essential ordinance. Indeed, the Lord Himself was not exempted from it.
Here and now then, we move to accomplish the work to which we are assigned. We are busily engaged in that kind of baptism. We gather the records of our kindred dead, indeed, the records of the entire human family; and in sacred temples in baptismal fonts designed as those were anciently, we perform these sacred ordinances.
“Strange,” one may say. It is passing strange. It is transcendent and supernal. The very nature of the work testifies that He is our Lord, that baptism is essential, that He taught the truth.
And so the question may be asked, “You mean you are out to provide baptism for all who have ever lived?”
And the answer is simply, “Yes.” For we have been commanded to do so.
“You mean for the entire human family? Why, that is impossible. If the preaching of the gospel to all who are living is a formidable challenge, then the vicarious work for all who have ever lived is impossible indeed.”
To that we say, “Perhaps, but we shall do it anyway.”
I bear witness that this work is true, that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, that there is on this earth today a prophet of God to lead modern Israel in this great obligation. I know that the Lord lives and that He broods anxiously over the work for the redemption of the dead, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
- President Boyd K. Packer, "The Redemption of the Dead" Churchwide General Conference, October 5, 1975, Church Ensign Magazine, Nov. 1975, page 97
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dl...
And for those who have died without a knowledge of the truth, a way has been provided. Sacred ordinances can be performed by the faithful living for the waiting dead. Houses of the Lord known as temples dot the land. As Elijah the prophet testified, the hearts of the fathers have been turned to the children, and the children to the fathers. (D&C; 110: 14–15.) None shall be denied. All shall have opportunity for eternal blessings.
- Thomas S. Monson, "An Invitation to Exaltation" broadcast by Satellite during an church-wide investigator’s fireside, Salt Lake City, 1 March 1984. Also “An Invitation to Exaltation,” Church Ensign Magazine, July 1984, page 69
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dl...
In the Church we hold sufficient authority to perform all of the ordinances necessary to redeem and to exalt the whole human family. And, because we have the keys to the sealing power, what we bind in proper order here will be bound in heaven. Those keys–the keys to seal and bind on earth, and have it bound in heaven–represent the consummate gift from our God. With that authority we can baptize and bless, we can endow and seal, and the Lord will honor our commitments.
The Prophet Joseph Smith said he was frequently asked the question, “ ‘Can we not be saved without going through with all those ordinances, etc?’ I would answer, No, not the fullness of salvation. Jesus said, ‘There are many mansions in my Father’s house, and I will go and prepare a place for you.’ House here named should have been translated kingdom; and any person who is exalted to the highest mansion has to abide a celestial law, and the whole law too” (History of the Church, 6:184).
- Boyd K. Packer, "The Holy Temple," Church Ensign Magazine, Feb. 1995, page 32
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dl...
The whole New Testament centers on the Resurrection of the Lord. The message is that all are to be resurrected. Every scripture and every motivation that apply to missionary work have their application to ordinance work for the dead.
You must know that baptism for someone who is dead is quite as essential as baptism for someone who is living. There is no difference in the importance of it. One by one it must happen. They must do it here while living, or it must be done for them here after they die.
- President Boyd K. Packer, “Your Family History: Getting Started,” Church Ensign Magazine, Aug. 2003, page 12, also President Packer’s book "The Holy Temple"
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dl...
The great work of providing the saving ordinances for our kindred dead is a vital part of the threefold mission of the Church. We do this work for a purpose, which is to redeem our dead ancestors. Temple work is essential for both us and our kindred dead who are waiting for these saving ordinances to be done for them. It is essential because “we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect.” 3 They need the saving ordinances, and we need to be sealed to them. For this reason it is important that we trace our family lines so that no one is left out.
Searching for our kindred dead isn’t just a hobby. It is a fundamental responsibility for all members of the Church. We believe that life continues after death and that all will be resurrected. 4 We believe that families may continue in the next life if they have kept the special covenants made in one of the sacred temples under the authority of God. We believe that our deceased ancestors can also be eternally united with their families when we make covenants in their behalf in the temples. Our deceased forebears may accept these covenants, if they choose to do so, in the spirit world. 5
The great vicarious work for our kindred dead in our temples demonstrates both the justice and the fairness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained the terrible dilemma which would face God’s children without temple work for our dead. Said he: “One dies and is buried, having never heard the Gospel of reconciliation; to the other the message of salvation is sent, he hears and embraces it, and is made the heir of eternal life. Shall the one become the partaker of glory and the other be consigned to hopeless perdition? Is there no chance for his escape?” 6 Fortunately our ancestors will have the opportunity to receive and accept the saving ordinances as we identify them and complete these sacred ordinances for them by proxy. We do for them what they cannot do for themselves. It is a very satisfying experience.
- First Presidency, James E. Faust, “The Phenomenon That Is You,” Ensign, Nov. 2003, page 53
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dl...
The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us, is to seek after our dead.” Because we cannot be saved without them, “it is necessary that those who have gone before and those who come after us should have salvation in common with us, and thus hath God made it obligatory to man,” says the Prophet Joseph Smith. (LDS Church Publication, Times and Seasons 5:616.)
From this, then, we see that while it is necessary to preach the gospel in the nations of the earth and to do all other good works in the Church, yet the greatest commandment given us, and made obligatory, is temple work in our own behalf and in behalf of our dead.
Again the Prophet says: “Baptism for the dead is the only way that men can appear as saviors upon Mount Zion. The proclamation of the first principles of the gospel was a means of salvation to man individually, but men, by actively engaging in rites of salvation substitutionally, become instrumental in bringing multitudes of their kin into the kingdom of God. … This doctrine appears glorious inasmuch as it exhibits the greatness of divine compassion and benevolence in the extent of the plan of human salvation. This glorious truth is well calculated to enlarge the understanding, and to sustain the soul under troubles, difficulties, and distresses. … This doctrine presents in a clear light the wisdom and mercy of God in preparing an ordinance for the salvation of the dead being baptized by proxy, their names recorded in heaven, and they judged according to the deeds done in the body. This doctrine was the burden of the scriptures. Those Saints who neglect it, in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at theperil of their own salvation.” (LDS Church Publication, Times and Seasons 2:577–78.)
The reason our own salvation stands in jeopardy is because it is necessary that parents and children not only receive the ordinance of baptism, but they must also be joined together from generation to generation. It is necessary for us to go into the temples, be baptized, confirmed, and receive all the ordinances for our dead, just as we receive them for ourselves. (See Official History of the LDS Church 6:365.)
“But how are they to become saviors on Mount Zion? By building their temples, erecting their baptismal fonts, and going forth and receiving all the ordinances, baptisms, confirmations, washings, anointings, ordinations and sealing powers upon their heads, in behalf of all their progenitors who are dead, and redeem them that they may come forth in the first resurrection and be exalted to thrones of glory with them; and herein is the chain that binds the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, which fulfills the mission of Elijah. And I would to God this temple was now done, that we might go into it, and go to work and improve our time, and make use of the seals while they are on earth.
“The Saints have not too much time to save and redeem their dead, and gather together their living relatives, that they may be saved also, before the earth will be smitten, and the [consummation] decreed falls upon the world.” (Official History of the LDS Church 6:183–84.)
These passages emphasize the importance of the work for the dead, for we cannot be saved without them, nor can they be saved without us. Our salvation cannot be accomplished unless the fathers and the children are joined together, bound, sealed in perfect family order. Husbands must be united by authority with their wives, and children to their parents, until theirs is one grand family composed of all the faithful from the beginning to the end of time, with Adam, our progenitor, standing in his calling as the father of us all.
- Church President, Joseph Fielding Smith, “Salvation Universal,” Ensign, Feb. 1971, page 2
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dl...
| Mormons have a right to their temples and weird beliefs.
They cross the line when they use non-mormon names in their rituals.
Some people leave behind massive estates, original artworks, and a long legacy of public service when they die. Most of us leave a modest estate, our good name, and the fleeting memory some have of us, with instructions for a funeral and possibly a headstone.
Mormons then, step in and take over the names and the memories. They need names to keep their temples operating and to extort tithes from members. They use the names of non-mormon dead and exmos for their own purposes. It makes no difference if a person has left other instructions for his/her final end.
If someone says they don't want a dead-dunking, mormons say they are stupid and bigotted, that they're persecuting well meaning church people who only want to give them a "gift."
There's a problem with this. Stalkers give unwanted gifts. Shyster marketers give unwanted gifts. Manipulative inlaws give unwanted gifts. If someone doesn't want a gift, they have a right to say no.
Of course mormons do claim that the dead can say no. But their rituals don't include this possibility in the wording which declares every dead victim as a member of the mormon church. Mormons believe that the dead are in spirit prisons with mishie boys as guards who teach them the gospel day in and day out until the inmates see the light. Then, comes the proxy baptism and the inmates are allowed to eternally progress in the morg feeding chain in the sky.
If they refuse the "gift," they get to dwell in a lowlife kingdom forever where no one has family or genitals, but they're happier than anyone in the earthly existence.
Convoluted? Uh-huh.
A fair reasonable choice? Nope.
| From the Salt Lake Tribune:
Mormons have not only posthumously baptized President Barack Obama's mother into their faith, but they may have performed the ritual for the president's African ancestors as well, including his father, grandfather and great-grandfather, according to researcher Helen Radkey.
She has uncovered records in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint's new FamilySearch database that include personalized identification numbers for Obama's relatives, including his father, Barack Obama Sr.
The president's father was Muslim, but later in life became a nonbeliever, according to the family.
Records in the FamilySearch database do not indicate if the "baptism for the dead" ceremony was actually performed in an LDS temple, saying only that the information is "not available."
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_1289308...
| From the Salt Lake Tribune:
It's not certain whether the late Sen. Ted Kennedy would be more palatable to conservative Utah Republicans if he were a Mormon, but it appears someone tried to make that happen.
Just one day after Kennedy died, someone apparently posted his name on an LDS Church database to have him placed on the list to be posthumously baptized.
That posting was uncovered by researcher Helen Radkey, who has been critical of the church practice.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_1321787...
| For the most of us, I'm sure we didn't have any spectral expressions of gratitude, from relatives or anyone that we've done temple rituals for that warrants our long pilgrimage to a temple. (For those who live FAR from a temple, the costs in gas, travel time, (example one temple in the whole country, or entire region. For myself I had to go down to Cardston, I'm sure this was a motivating factor for building a temple in Edmonton, (you have to go through CALGARY 3 hours, then 2 additional hours to Cardston). For Vancouverites you had to go to Seattle). Manitoba doesn't even have one. And Canadian provinces tend to be large, What about Mormons living throughout the province and have to drive FAR to get to that one tiny dot? (Again a reason why they built the temple in Edmonton (Which is sad, because That would really help the less actives quit).
Anyways, the wear and tear on our vehicles, gas, time, (usually the entire ward goes, and we do ten dunks per turn (so In my career as a Mormon estimate over 100+). This is a HUGE sacrifice we're doing on behalf for someone who may or may not even accept the 6 discussions (and I'm pretty sure, even Missionaries up there are avoided lol).
So you'd think that when we do these water in the brain inducing rituals, it's a HUGE gesture, yet I'm sure you guys as I did, saw, felt, heard nothing. Not even a pat on the back for a job well done. And driving in a car full of idiot, wasting gas, wearing thin our oil, and knocking a few hours off our car's life span at least once a month, IS A JOB WELL DONE in itself. I can't even tally how many times I heard of the Kamakazi pilot attacking the Hawaii temple story. Or even the boys who want to try and vandalize the Cardston temple but couldn't find it even though it's the big obnoxious building that you can see from a distance. (resembles a mythical magical building from a distance the way it hangs on the valley like that).
This is a significant gesture of mercy from us, as we can't stand to see them in cages and we have to "free the birdies" (Mormon urban legend). So that they could at last have the fullness of the gossip AND avoid getting dunked because getting dunked 10 times and having water go into your eyeballs through your sinuses really sucks. (Yes I did pinch my nose). On this note, how in the hell can a GHOST even get baptized. or wet? Don't you need to be a solid? anyways... The stories of people waiting for hundreds of years to play dunk the clown. Stories of how day after day for hundreds of years (or however long the records go back)... of asking has the work been done yet? pissing off St Peter. (Seriously his job must suck worse that GREG DODGE). And not even a THANK YOU? Or a simple feeling of peace to even encourage us to come out this far?
The protocols of polite society customizes that if you're the recipient of a genuine act of good will aid. You show your appreciation to the good deed doer, by saying Thank you. Or they teach us this in GRADE school.
There is nothing but ingratitude in Mormon society from insensitive insist of paying tithing in response from the pleas of mercy from distressed Saints.. Why should Mormon Ghosts be any different right? It's just give tithe and fuck off. The ghost say do work for us and fuck off.
Like now at least when the judgment day comes and we're all resurrected they could be awaken first during the Morning right? That they wouldn't have to parish for being misled or something.
It's like we're being shafted on our tips, for DOING A GOOD JOB. And getting dead dunked in a sub zero Necropolis Grants Tomb Lenin's Tomb, or Sung Jong Il looking tomb (Cardston baptism font chamber, was very Cubist Art Deco, marble http://www.moroni10.com/LDS/Temple_Tour/baptistry.html (the photo doesn't do the chamber justice).
It was a large square looking thing (like a palace dining room), There was this balcony section up. and it was VERY VERY COLD in the cold Canadian winters. Icy Cold Marble, which oddly felt very very comfortable and Smooth on my soggy feet. lol. In the photo, It's a flash, because the walls were thick nuclear proof bank vault marble granite things. Just like a tomb. Like during winter with the ugly pruned trees of Cardston, I can see it being used as a fortress against a horde of Zombies. (Perhaps those who are ungrateful for desecrating their memories and honor in this blasphemous manner!
So was it just me, or did you guys also have first row seats to the Ungrateful dead concerts?
Hell I even did the work for one the clan of one of my YSA girls. All these English blokes from Suffield. (It's in my diary). Not a Well done Cheers Mate? when I'm sure if I got them a pint at the pub after ship building day, I'd get a cheers mate.
Sheesh. Ungrateful dead. Like what happened to all those stories of some Saints seeing visions of blissful and rested spirits in their Mormon Underwares, freaking us out smiling at us standing over our beds.
It's because I'm a cat isn't it?
Well as the saying goes. Sheesh that's gratitude for ya.
| DNA shows no Jewish ancestry for the American Indian. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be written for the descendants of the people in the Book. The LDS historically considered the American Indian those people. Apologists are now arguing that the Book of Mormon people were only a small group in a vast population of "others".
Now for a different twist let's consider the Jewish idea.
Why should the LDS "allow Jewish Holocaust victims the be the only category exempt from Church doctrine that calls for vicarious bapstism for the dead"? Why only this category?
Thomas S. Monson's ancestors were in a wagon company whose stray ox led to a massacre on my wife's family. For nine years an LDS.org website called that massacre a "significant victory" for General Harney. My wife finally got it changed. We have the letter from COB.
The temple work for some of her family was already done, by non-relatives. The sources were taken from a U.S. Federal census. This temple work was done for a person who had survived that massacre. Christianity had been forced on his grand children and great-grand children. They had been taken from their families and placed in boarding schools, etc. They were strong-willed enough to never forget who they are.
At this time the LDS say that the only exemption is for the Jewish Holocaust survivors. We shall see.
The Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act is federal law. The LDS are quick to argue that nobody owns their ancestors. The American Indian are in a very unique position right now. Names taken from federal documents just might fall under a protected status in this case. It took nine years to get the LDS to be historically correct on their website. We are patient but persistent.
No American Indian family name should be freely taken and proxied into LDS records. Neither should these names be marketed for profit. And in cases where the name is of historical and cultural significance, it just might be that one family member has no more right to give that name to the church than an individual could give a significant artifact to a museum. The tribe must also grant consent in cases of certain objects. In the future it might include family names. We shall see.
Massacre links:
Before:
http://lds.org/library/pio_sto/Pionee...
After
http://lds.org/gospellibrary/pioneer/...
Jewish Holocaust Baptims:
http://lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-r...
http://www.thejewishweek.com/editoria...
| A letter was read to Mormons yesterday. Members are only to research and baptize their own family members. Do not baptize "celebrities and Holocaust Jews".
They're conveniently ignoring the fact that these names were, in all likelihood, harvested through the extraction program, not submitted by individual members as part of their family ancestry.
The Church's emphasis on blaming errant members accomplishes several goals: it implies that rogue members, not the Church itself, are responsible for the offensive submissions, it effectively hides the extraction program by deflecting attention towards members, and it implies that the Church can't keep track of all the names that have been submitted (therefore it's not the Church's fault that some slipped through).
Do the math. Faithful members are encouraged to attend the temple at least once a month. Youth groups do baptisms for the dead on top of that. Every ordinance must be performed on behalf of a real, deceased individual with a recorded name, birth date, and death date. Since there aren't enough ancestral names to support the desired level of temple attendance (and the goal is to do ordinances for everyone who's ever lived), those names gotta come from somewhere -- hence the extraction program.
Without a steady new supply of converts to widen the pool of available ancestral names, the shortage of eligible dead folks only worsens as successive generations of BIC members exhaust their ancestral lineage and must rely on names provided by the temple. Is anyone really surprised that some deceased individuals have had ordinances performed on their behalf multiple times? It's just that we notice the famous ones more, like Anne Frank. There's probably plenty of duplication going on with non-famous dead people, too.
The Church keeps building more and more new temples, as well. In order to keep them full of patrons, even more names must be constantly generated. There are, what, 136 now, plus 15 under construction and 15 more announced? If we assume even a few hundred ordinances per day per temple, it adds up quickly: if there are 275 working days per year, and 200 ordinances per day for each of those 136 temples (a modest number), in one year alone 7,480,000 names would be required. Theoretically, names are not supposed to be "recycled." In a two-year period, say 2011 and 2012, nearly 16 million new names of deceased individuals would be needed (excluding all the names that have already been done).
Of course they're not going to mention the extraction program. Without it, temple work would be dead in the water within a very short time.
| Last week, parliament asked the minister of the interior formal questions about the cooperation of archives with the mormons.
The minister (or rather his deputy) had no problem with it since it saves money (the mormons digitalize the archives for free so they can process the names in their International Houses of Handshakes).
But parliament isn't satisfied with the answer. Five parties (three big ones, two minor ones) have now asked for a debate in parliament.
"The dead may not have a right to privacy but there is such a thing as respect," one MP says. "The government may not be able to prevent this religious mumbo-jumbo but she can see to it that she doesn't actively contribute to it."
"As far as I'm concerned," the MP continues, "we are going to strongly advise against this cooperation [between the mormons and the archives]. Maybe the archivists can create an ethical code. And maybe the law on archiving should contain a provision about respecting the private sphere of the deceased."
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/10844/Mormo...
| From the Huffington Post:
A researcher who has found documentation that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was performing proxy posthumous baptisms of Holocaust victims, celebrities and other non-Mormons said that relatives of Rep. Paul Ryan, the Roman Catholic running mate of the country's most prominent Mormon, Mitt Romney, were on a list of future baptisms or had the ritual performed on their behalf.
Helen Radkey told The Huffington Post that despite recent security measures, she found the names of Ryan's father, grandfather and great-grandfather in a genealogical database open only to Mormons.
Radkey, whose research is independent, said a search for first names and cross-referencing of dates and birthplaces with information available online revealed entries for:
- Paul Murray Ryan, the Wisconsin congressman's father. He died of a heart attack in 1986 when Ryan was 16.
- Stanley Martin Ryan, Ryan's paternal grandfather, who was born in Janesville in 1898 and died in 1957.
- Patrick William Ryan, the paternal great-grandfather, who founded the family construction company and passed away in 1917.
"Why are names of Paul Ryan's deceased family in the Mormon database of posthumous rites? This is a Catholic family ... with roots in Ireland on his dad's side," Radkey said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08...
| "1. Isn't baptizing dead people just for people who never heard of Mormonism? I thought so. So doesn't baptizing dead people who rejected it waste time?"
- According to Mormon Doctrine and ritual, everyone HAS to have been baptized in order to receive the fullness of the gospel. Even if they heard it in this life and rejected it, that only means that they didn't really know what they were giving up. When they are dead, they'll see the truth and accept it then. So, anyone who is dead, if they can determine their name and an approximation for their birthday, they will be "baptized" in the temple, probably more than once. I think Amelia Earhart was up to 9 times last time I heard. Hitler has been baptized countless times (everyone deserves a chance after all! Look how righteous and forgiving I am, I did Hitler's work!). I do not think they even do a good job of determining if the person was a full blown member while they were alive. If they are dead, they are up for grabs.
"2. Does it strike anyone else as disrespectful to violate the wishes of the deceased?"
To any non-mormon, this is incredibly disrespectful. When asked about such disrespect, a mormon will simply answer that the dead person in question can choose to accept it or not, as if that means that the post-humus conversion of their loved one isn't any big deal. And to those to state that this is not a "conversion" I would simply ask, what ritual is used to initiate a person into full membership into the church... What's that? that's right, baptism.
"3. I understand that posthumous rituals like awards or exhonerations are mainly for the living. But what about if most of the living don't want that ritual to happen? Shouldn't you defer to the majority in that case?"
The church has magnanimously stated openly that only family members should submit names for temple work. However that does not stop family members in part member families (such as yours) from entering names for people they know have stated that they want nothing to do with the church.
Remember, the members of the church truly believe that these things HAVE to be done to allow them entrance into the celestial kingdom. The God they believe in has decreed that these ordinances must be done by a living body, so while they may accept or reject the "gospel" in the afterlife, it won't matter until someone does "the work" for them in a temple. Why anyone would believe in such a God, I know wonder, why did I ever believe such nonsense.
The only time the church has ever publicly stated that a group is exempt from this practice, that I know of, is Jewish holocaust victims. Families of these people were understandably upset that their loved ones who literally died for who they were and their religious beliefs were being post-humorously converted to the mormon version of Christianity. They sued the church and the church backed off the practice of actively using the holocaust lists. But, if a family member submits the name, it will still be used. They will not go out of their way to create an exclusion list and check against it.
I have no doubt that even though I have resigned my membership that as soon as I pass on and the church gets wind of it, my name will automatically switch from "Alive/resigned" to "dead/temple work ready" status. There will be little if anything I or anyone I know can do about it. (and really, I'll be dead, I won't really care at that point)
All in all, I now see this practice as a way for the church to keep it's members busy and make them feel self important ("I helped save 3 people today because I went to the temple and did their work!") while alienating other people and stomping all over their belief and disrespecting their wishes.
| How can Dead People Covenant to Wear Garments: (Garments are the underwear that Mormons receive in the Temple. When you are placed in the garments, you are given the following commandment and promise, and are subsequently asked in interviews by your bishop if you wear your church-authorized garments both day and night) I place this Garment upon you, which you must wear throughout your life. It represents the Garment given to Adam when he was found naked in the Garden of Eden, and is called the Garment of the Holy Priesthood. Inasmuch as you do not defile it, but are true and faithful to your covenants, it will be a shield and a protection to you against the power of the destroyer until you have finished your work here on earth.
How can Dead Women Covenant to keep the Law of Obedience (women): You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar that you will each observe and keep the law of the Lord and hearken unto the counsel of your husband as he hearkens unto the counsel of the Father. Each of you bow your head and say "Yes."
How can Dead Men Covenant to keep the Law of Obedience (men): You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angles, and these witnesses at this altar that you will obey the law of God, and keep his commandants. Each of you bow your head and say "yes".
How can Dead People Covenant to keep the Law of Sacrifice: The posterity of Adam down to Moses, and from Moses to Jesus Christ offered up the first fruits of the field, and the firstlings of the flock, which continued until the death of Jesus Christ, which ended sacrifice by the shedding of blood. And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God. You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this alter that you will observe and keep the Law of Sacrifice, as contained in the Holy Scriptures, as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your head and say "yes."
How can Dead People Covenant to keep the Tokens, Names, and Signs: (A token is a specific handshake, a name is a specific word or phrase, and a sign is a specific gesture with the hands and arms. The temple endowment has 4 tokens, each with an associated name and sign. When the tokens are given, you promise never to reveal it, nor the accompanying name and sign. This is the introduction to the first token which, for the purposes of this page, will represent the promise of secrecy regarding all of the names, signs, and tokens of the temple) We desire to impress upon your minds the sacred character of the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name and sign, as well as that of all the other tokens of the Holy Priesthood, with their names, and signs, which you will receive in the temple this day. They are most sacred, and are guarded by solemn covenants and obligations made in the presence of God, Angels and these witnesses to hold them sacred and under no condition, even at the peril of your life, will you ever divulge them, except at a certain place in the temple that will be shown you hereafter.
How can Dead People Covenant to keep the Law of the Gospel: We are required to give unto you the Law of the Gospel as contained in the Holy Scriptures; to give unto you also a charge to avoid all lightmindedness, loud laughter, evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, the taking of the name of God in vain, and every other unholy and impure practice, and to cause you to receive these by covenant. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you will observe and keep the Law of the Gospel and this charge as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your head and say "yes."
How can Dead People Covenant to keep the Law of Chastity: We are instructed to give unto you the law of Chastity, which is that you shall have no sexual relations except with your husband or wife to whom you are legally and lawfully wedded. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses that you will observe and keep the Law of Chastity, as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your head and say "yes."
How can Dead People Covenant to keep the Law of Consecration: You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
| |
|
How to navigate:- Click the subject below to go directly to the article.
- Click the red arrow on the article to return to the top.
- Right-Click and copythe "-Guid-" (the Link Location URL) for a direct link to the page and article.
Archived Blogs:
| |
Articles posted here are © by their respective owners when designated.
Website © 2005-2013
Compiled With: Caligra 1.121
HOSTED BY
 |
| |
AvoBase is a light-weight robust point of sale software tool.
If you sell Avon, Stampin-Up, Scentsy, Mary-Kay? AvoBase is for you.
AvoBase can sell from any of them - and even sell from ALL of them at the same time.
And not just Avon, AvoBase can sell nearly ANYTHING.
Sell your product, track your customers and your taxes - all in one easy to use application.
Download FREE today at AvoBase.com.
|
|
|
