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GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3
Total Articles:
22
Gordon Bitner Hinckley was the 15th Prophet of the Mormon Church.
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 | Gordon B. Hinckley: Blacks Need To Be Developed. Mormonism Is Trying To Help Them.
Monday, Oct 31, 2005, at 07:02 AM
Original Author(s): Infymus
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | In 2002 a German reporter interviewed Gordon B. Hinckley. The reporter asked Gordon the following:
“Until 1978, no person of color attained priesthood in your church. Why it took so long time to overcome the racism?”
Gordon responded:
“I don't know. I don't know. I can only say that. But it's
We're
It's here now. We're carrying on a very extensive work in Africa, for instance. We're carrying a very substantial work in Brazil. We're working among these people, we're developing them. Uh, we have them among the leadership of the Church. And they're able, they do a great work, and we love them, and appreciate them. And respect them, and are trying to help them.”
So according to Gordon B. Hinckley, blacks are in need of development. Blacks are in need of help. And prior to 1978, the Mormon God and the Mormon Church did not consider blacks worthy of being developed or being helped. 150 years of Mormon Doctrine show the countless verses where Mormon leaders have stated that Blacks were an inferior race.
Blacks everywhere should rejoice that the Mormon God has now decreed that they now may be “Developed” and “Helped”, since of course, according to the words spoken above by one Mormon Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley - blacks are in need of development and need help in doing so.
Blacks in Africa are among the poorest in the world. The entire reason that the Mormon Church built a temple and is “Helping” the black people in Africa is a complete PR MOVE. There is no money to be had in Africa. The cost of building and maintaining temples and churches in Africa is exorbitant. Blacks in Africa are taught the “New Gospel” and the old racist teachings of past Mormon Prophets are purposefully hidden from them. Gordon B. Hinckley's response to the question why would be, as he has stated before, “That was the past. We go forward.” Of course, Gordon B. Hinckley doesn't state the obvious fact that the Mormon Church is ridding the African Blacks of their "heathen" ways and "heathen religions" and instituting good clean WHITE MAN rules and regulations and a WHITE GOD to worship.
With the passing of the great Rosa Parks this weekend, I think personally that all blacks have helped themselves and developed themselves - thank you very much. They never needed the Mormon God or the Mormon so-called “Prophet” to step in and “Develop” them and “Help them”.
Mormonism has always been and will always continue to be a racist organization. Gordon B. Hinckley and current leaders of the Mormon Church refuse to apologize for the countless racist writings passed down from the beginning of the Mormon Church. The Mormon Church still continues to teach that Blacks are less valiant and are born “Black” because they were less valiant in the “Pre-Existence” and therefore are cursed to follow the lineage of Cain. THIS DOCTRINE IS STILL TAUGHT IN MORMON CHURCHES TODAY. The Mormon Church now busily eradicates all old doctrines by simply omitting them from current Church History books and lesson manuals.
Mormonism, isn't it about time?
|  | Palmyra Stake President Continues In The Hinckley Tradition Of "I Don't Know That We Teach That", Denies Knowing Specifics Of The Man-God Doctrine
Monday, Dec 12, 2005, at 02:01 AM
Original Author(s): Marketta Gregory
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | From the Democrat & Chronicle:
"Cook believes, for example, that people will progress throughout eternity because the Bible talks about the faithful being heirs with God and joint heirs with Jesus. Some people say that means individuals have the potential to be gods of their own worlds, "but we really don't know the specifics," Cook said."
Gordon B. Hinckley's continue teaching of "I don't know" and "I don't know that we teach that" is starting to catch on. Gordon's continual denial of actual Mormon Corporation Doctrine is spreading. Mormons can easily dismiss hard-hitting questions simply by stating, "I don't know that we teach that," or in this case, "I don't know the specifics."
Deny. Deny. Deny. Testify. Testify. Testify.
Some references for you on the Man-God doctrine taught by Mormonism:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...........It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God........yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible...." (from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and History of the Church, 6:302-17)
"He [God] is our Father--the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being. It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being;" (Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333)
"You and I--what helpless creatures are we! Such limited power we have, and how little can we control the wind and the waves and the storms! We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single line, were stated by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: 'As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.'" (President Spencer W. Kimball in "Our Great Potential" from the April 1977 Priesthood Session of General Conference)
"The Gods who dwell in the Heaven...have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state....they were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods to inhabit their Heaven forever and ever." (Apostle Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 23)
I'm sure that as the LDS Corporation cleans up it's history and molds Joseph Smith into the new Jesus Christ, this doctrine will be phased out - just as dozens and dozens of previously taught doctrines will also be phased out. As Mormonism becomes more main-stream, expect to see these kinds of responses from Mormons more and more.
| Today, GBH is in Finland, dedicating yet another completely unnecessary temple.
Some exerpts from Deseret Morning News of today:
"He noted how Finland has drawn recognition for creating the most competitive business climate, the least corrupt government and the finest school system in the world."
Business is the first thing he mentions? Of course. How appropriate.
"He also noted it is the only country to repay war debts to the United States"
Isn't that pretty old stuff? But of course, he would remember it first hand, being from the bygone era himself.
"and praised the ability by most residents to speak three languages."
What utter BS. They do NOT speak three languages. Finnish is the mother tongue of more than 95 %. Most don't even speak the TWO official ones. Swedish is not an option for Finns, you MUST study it and also pass tests before you can serve in government owned institutions & positions. But most ordinary Finns DO NOT SPEAK SWEDISH. Many do understand English but speak it poorly. So claiming that "most speak three languages" is just poo-poo.
"President Hinckley lamented that after 59 years since the land was dedicated for the preaching of the gospel that there are only 5,000 members out of a population of 5 million."
News for you, Hinkster: There aren't even 5000 members. The official state statistics say there were 3278 members INCLUDING children under 8, in the end of 2005. And the numbers are getting lower year by year. (You are not allowed to be a member of more than one religious institution, and all Finns are registered.) So, if the 3278 is the total number of Mormons, I guess the real ACTIVES number is even lower. Many do fall into inactivity even in Finland, without reporting it to anyone.
"He expressed hope that the recent temple open house – where more than 50,000 visitors were hosted – will prepare others for the church."
Yeah, well. He must know the hope is pretty weak. Yeah, the Mormons counted the visitors to be over 55000, but consider this: Some 3000 wanted the gratis BOM and were foolish enough to give their names and addresses to the Mormons. OF ALL THOSE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VISITORS, ONLY 91 WANTED MISSIONARIES TO VISIT THEM FOR TEACHING.
"The five countries of the Helsinki Finland Temple district constitute the largest geographic area of any temple, crossing at least 12 time zones and five languages with approximately 20,000 members."
Yeah right. 20,000 members. You wish.
| | | Gordon B. Hinckley Contradicts Himself, Look To The Past, But Don't Look To The Past
Monday, Nov 13, 2006, at 06:32 AM
Original Author(s): Chymiron
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | | | Gordon B. Hinckley Lies About Polygamy Stating That Polygamy Is "Not Doctrinal", Ignoring The Present And The Past
Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007, at 07:22 AM
Original Author(s): Infymus
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | | | Gordon B. Hinckley Told Young Mormon Women This Saturday That Paying Tithing Would Insure Virtue
Monday, Mar 26, 2007, at 08:09 AM
Original Author(s): No Meetings For Me
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | Quote, "President Hinckley outlined four ways young women can ensure virture as a staple in their lives: prayer, study, tithing, and church attendance."
(Deseret News Sunday 3/25)
TITHING???
Now I think I've heard it all.
Follow the money is correct. President Hinckley certainly knows how to cover the money game. Throw it into a completely unrelated topic and voila....those revenues will increase. I don't think he cares about the virtue of young women. He cares about the bottom fiscal line.
It is so apparent that the leadership is all about revenue. My General Conference prediction is that tithing will be the most discussed topic, followed by retaining the converts that the church is losing in droves.
Virtue and tithing....GBH knows. He knows it is all a corporational ploy. If he was really concerned he would NOT have mentioned money.
| Our newspaper reported on the recent Young Women's General Conference, and according to the story, Gordon B. "Bee" Hinckley had this to tell them (I'm paraphrasing, because I don't have the article in front of me):
If you want happiness and success in this life, there are only four things which you must do.
- Pray often;
- Get as much education as you can;
- Always attend your church meetings; and
- Pay a full tithe.
Now, aside from the "Get as much education as you can," the rest of this is troublesome to me.
Pray often is a euphamism for "don't think for yourself, but assume that some higher being is going to tell you what to do. In the absence of answers, turn to the scriptures, the teachings of the prophets, and the counsel of your priesthood leaders." If prayer was all about gratitude, then I might be more merciful toward this admonition, but my experience is that prayer in the Mormon church is primarily for two purposes. First, to tell God what you want, and second, to receive "personal revelation" from God regarding what you should do. "Should I wear slacks, or a skirt? Better ask God!" Subsequently, when I hear 'pray often,' I am inclined to hear, "Give your mind over to us."
Always attend your church meetings means, "Always do all the things the church would have you do. The institution of the church requires enormous sacrifices of time from it's members, WAY beyond the three hour block of church. They know that if they have their YW (and everyone else) orbiting around the church, they won't have time or inclination to expore anything outside the church. When I hear "Always attend your church meetings" I am inclined to hear, "Give your time over to us."
And Always pay a full tithe is just blatantly absurd. "Give God your money, you'll be happy." In other words, "Turn your money over to us."
It is discouraging to me that the message is "Give up your mind, your time and your money" to the church, and therin you'll find happiness and success. But what about these things:
Honor the diversity of opinion, race, religion and culture of the world, that you might know you are a citizen of planet earth;
Live with an attitude of abundance, knowing that if we live each day with an eye towards the needs of both ourselves and others, we all will have what we need for our health, happiness and prosperity;
Be informed and active in the issues of your community, your nation, and the world, that you might lend your voice to making this a better place to live;
Work hard and honestly to ensure that you do your part to meet your own needs, and have sufficient to help those who cannot help themselves;
Love with abandon the people and the creaturs you share this planet with;
Live a life that seeks at every turn to do no harm. If you must cause harm, ensure that it is appropriate and necessary to further the greater cause of humanity, and life on the planet;
Treat the relationships in your life--your parents, your siblings, your spouse, your children, your friends and neighbors--with honor and respect;
Live a life filled with honesty and inegrity;
...and the list goes on.
Never would I include on MY list of things to ensure success "Pay a multi-billion church corporation a butt-load of money so they can buy more sh*t". Never would I include on my list "give up your mind to someone else".
Am I alone in this, or this admonition by the President of the church shallow, manipulative, and incredibly self-serving?
| This weekend Gordon B. Hinckley again reinforced the rule that women are second class citizens in Mormonism:
"Husbands, love and treasure your wives. They are your most precious possessions. Wives, encourage and pray for your husbands. They need all the help they can get."
Women are still "possessions" and you will need three of them to become a Mormon God.
Thanks Gordy.
| | | Hinckley's Statement That Women Are "Possessions" Show The Philosophical Underpinnings Of Mormonism
Thursday, Apr 5, 2007, at 01:45 AM
Original Author(s): Grape Nephi
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | I would agree it was probably not meant to be deragatory. But it does show the philosophical underpinnings from being brought up in the Mormon Religion.
This is a theme that he has used for a while. For example in the Jan 2002 ensign:
Regard as your most precious possession in time or eternity the person with whom you joined hands over the altar in the house of the Lord and to whom you pledged your love and loyalty and affection for time and all eternity.
In the young women metting in March 1998 Faust used the same term in describing sexual purity:
Sexual purity is youth's most precious possession; it is the foundation of all righteousness. This implies that the virtue of young women should be equal to the angels.
From the 1996 mariied students regional conference, Hinckley stated:
"My brethren, you will never have in all of your lives a greater asset than
the woman into whose eyes you looked as you joined hands over the altar in
the house of the Lord. She will be your most precious possession in time or
eternity. "
Let's look at the definitions of possession from a number of sites on the web:
- the act of having and controlling property
- anything owned or possessed
- being controlled by passion or the supernatural
- monomania: a mania restricted to one thing or idea
- a territory that is controlled by a ruling state
"Possession is having some degree of control over something else. Generally, to possess something, a person must have an intention to possess it. A person may be in possession of some property (although possession does not always imply ownership). Like ownership, the possession of things is commonly regulated by states under property law. Languages have several means to indicate possession."
"The method recognized by law and used by oneself or by another to hold, detain, or control either personal or real property, thereby excluding others from holding or controlling such property."
The use of the word possession in Hinckley's talks harkens back to a time when women were literally the possession of their husbands such as in Middle Eastern cultures. Are women or men today the possessions of their spouses in the US, Cnada or Europe? I consider a spouse a partner. Using the term possession intones something different than a partner. Perhaps he did not mean it the way it sounds but as the prophet and president of the church he should pick his words more carefully.
| This remark by Gordon B. Hinckley caught my ear during General Conference:
"When the emperor Constantine was converted to Christianity, he became aware of the divisiveness among the clergy concerning the nature of Deity. In an attempt to overcome this he gathered the eminent divines of the day to Nicaea in the year 325. Each participant was given opportunity to state his views. The argument only grew more heated. When a definition could not be reached, a compromise was made. It came to be known as the Nicene Creed, and its basic elements are recited by most of the Christian faithful.
"Personally I cannot understand it. To me the creed is confusing.
"How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith, who, while yet a boy, spoke with God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the Risen Lord."
I'm sure this went completely unnoticed by TBMs, but this is the type of negativity that mormons are highly sensitive to when it is directed toward them, yet they engage in it toward other faiths on a fairly regular basis. Imagine if Pope Benedict stood in front of a large gathering of Catholics and briefly summarized the various versions of the First Visions then told his followers, "Personally I cannot understand it. To me Joseph Smith's multiple accounts of seeing God and Jesus are confusing. How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on one man's opinion concerning the nature of Deity."
It may seem like a minor attack, but it is an official statement coming from the church leader.
And did anyone else find Hinckley's bolded comments above ironic. The Mormon church doesn't rely on man-made statements regarding deity because their knowledge comes from Joseph Smith?
| LDS members have a cult-hero worship relationship with Gordon Hinckley and believe him to be the most important man on earth. Hinckley, for his part, has added to this perception by scheduling interviews with reporters such as Mike Wallace and Larry King.
But do they consider him prominent or important?
Larry King’s internet website lists many note-worthy people he has interviewed, including:
(http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_report...)
Every U.S. president since the Ford administration
Al Gore
Ross Perot
Yasser Arafat
King Hussein of Jordan and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin
George H.W. Bush
Bill Clinton,
Jimmy Carter
Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein
President George W. Bush, first lady Laura Bush
Sen. John Kerry, Teresa Heinz Kerry
Sen. John Edwards and Elizabeth Edwards
Former British Prime Minister John Major
Convicted murderers Sante Kimes and her son, Kenneth
Karla Faye Tucker, the first woman to be executed in Texas
Mike Tyson
James Frey
Wynonna Judd
Howard Stern
Kathryn McDonald, wife of convicted murderer Jeffrey McDonaldv
Jennifer Aniston
Kobe Bryant
New York Times journalist Judy Miller
Generals Richard Myers and Hugh Shelton
Queen Noor of Jordan
captured Newsday journalist Matthew McCallester
families of POWs
Ambassadors from Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Syria and Turkey
The "Central Park Jogger" Trisha Meili
Paul Burrell, butler to the late Princess to Diana
Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott
interviews with the family of the D.C.-area snipers
Actor Harry Belafonte regarding his controversial comments about Secretary of State Colin Powell
Erin Runnion, mother of murdered 5-year-old Samantha Runnion
Mariane Pearl, widow of slain journalist Danny Pearl
former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling's
Tony Blair
Marlon Brando
Barbara Bush
Johnny Carson
Bette Davis
Sammy Davis Jr.
Jackie Gleason
Mikhail Gorbachev
Billy Graham
Audrey Hepburn
Bob Hope
L.Ron Hubbard
Michael Jordan
Bobby Kennedy
John F. Kennedy, Jr.
Dr. Martin Luther King
Monica Lewinsky
Madonna
Paul McCartney
Al Pacino
Prince
Nancy Reagan
Eleanor Roosevelt
Pete Rose
Frank Sinatra
Barbra Streisand
Margaret Thatcher
Oprah Winfrey
Malcolm X
Religious leaders such as Billy Graham and Scientology’s L. Ron Hubbard appear on King’s list. Even Mike Tyson, Monica Lewinsky, Pete Rose and Prince make the cut. Even Princess Diana’s butler is listed. Guess who’s missing? Yeah, you guessed it no Hinckley mentioned.
Well, what about Mike Wallace of Sixty Minutes fame. The two, after Hinckley’s anxious interview, became great friends. Surely, Mr. Wallace considers the Mormon prophet a person of note.
Let’s review the official Mike Wallace website listing those prominent people he has interviewed:
(http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/0...)
Jose Canseco
Russian President Vladimir Putin
John Nash, the mentally ill genius on whose life the controversial Academy Award-winning film “A Beautiful Mind” was based,
Louis Farrakhan and the eldest daughter of Malcolm X, who has accused Farrakhan of indirect complicity in her father's assassination,
U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan
George H.W. Bush,
Ronald and Nancy Reagan
Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter
Gerald Ford
Richard Nixon
Lyndon B. Johnson
John F. Kennedy
Deng Xiaoping
Manuel Noriega,
the Ayatollah Khomeini
Menachem Begin
Anwar el-Sadat
Yasir Arafat
the Shah of Iran
King Hussein
Hafez Assad
Muammar Qaddafi
Kurt Waldheim
H. R. Haldeman
Vladimir Horowitz
Itzhak Perlman
Mikhail Baryshnikov
Leonard Bernstein
Johnny Carson among many others
Not there either. Oh, yeah, in 2005 Mr. Wallace had published his memoirs entitled: “Between You and Me: A Memoir.” Hinckley must be mentioned or included in Wallace’s lengthier book. No, not there either.
Maybe, just maybe, the two most noteworthy journalists to ever interview Hinckley don’t consider him famous, important or even memorable. Any maybe, they don’t even consider the LDS Church prominent enough to include its leader in their biography pages.
| | | Mormon Church President, Gordon B. Hinckley Acknowledges That Church Continues To Practice Polygamy
Friday, Oct 26, 2007, at 04:36 AM
Original Author(s): Lulu
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | "President Hinckley affirmed the eternal nature of the marriage between Sister Hunter and the former church president, whose first wife, Claire Jeffs, died after a long battle with Alzheimer's disease and is now buried beside him in the Salt Lake Cemetery.
Inis Hunter "will now be laid to rest on the other side," he said. "They were sealed under the authority of the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood for time and for all eternity," he said, recalling the marriage ceremony he performed for them in the Salt Lake Temple in April 1990."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,...
| | | Now It's Obvious The Hinckley Years Were The High Water Mark For The LDS Church
Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008, at 07:04 AM
Original Author(s): Rubicon
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | Gordon B. Hinckley was the well liked, highly visible church leader that understood the church members liked to hear a joke or two, be reminded of their pioneer heritage and what those people accomplished, and the feeling that they belonged to something big.
Hinkley also knew the members of the church liked to see the prophet and went around the world on a Gulf Stream jet and private helicopter supposedly thanks to John Huntsman.
Hinckley rebuilt Nauvoo and other church historic sites making them grander than ever. He put Martin's Cove back on the map. LDS summer vacations were now visiting Nauvooland and pulling a handcart at Martin's Cove. Everything the church ran and owned became grander and more wonderful under Hinckley. The historic tabernacle was replaced with a half billion dollar Conference Center. BYU Provo received upgrades while Rick's College became BYU Idaho with a Harvard Business School Dean running the show.
Hinckley did public interviews and hired Madison Avenue to due the church PR work. He liked to refer to the book of Daniel and liken the church to the stone cut out without hands rolling forth.
At first Hinckley's plan seemed to work until in the mid 1990's a software program called Netscape made searching the internet easier. The internet changed the world much like the invention of the PC did. It leveled the playing field allowing the average person to have more of a voice, to more easily search for information and harder to hide information. The mainstream media and large organizations could not withhold information like it used to.
People who had left the church could tell their story in easy to find forums on websites. Church historical information could be looked up and compared. People from all over the world could tell their experiences. All this added up and showed more than ever, the LDS Church was full of bull. This was all happening at the same time while the LDS Prophet was doing public interviews denying basic church doctrine. The church leaders continued business at usual and the emperor had no clothes anymore.
Not to mention terrorist attacks on 9/11 brought attention on the Mountain Meadows Massacre again and when ground was broke to build Hinckley's "We're Sorry!" monument, forensic evidence of the massacre was found to show the surviving children told the truth and the Mormons cooked a story. Add in the FLDS polygamy scandals and abuse and Hinckley's public relations blitz was failing badly.
Now the church is investing $2 billion into a downtown mall project. Not to mention the church bought part of Main Street and turned it into a parking garage. The media and attention loving Hinckley is gone and has been replaced with Thomas S. Monson.
Monson will steer the church the same way Hinckley did but without all the grand public relation stunts. I think he will avoid talking to the press like Hinckley did other than press that he knows if friendly to the church. Monson's reign has already been somewhat of a disaster. Instead of bragging about the strength of the church and the rock rolling forth, the new prophet begs exmormons to return to the fold. It's a far cry from the begining of the Hinckley years where the church was mighty and the fastest growing.
Business as usual is going to run the rest of the sane members from the church and all that will be left will be a bunch of Kool Aid drinking wierdos.
| That the 1997 LDS priesthood/Relief Society lesson manual "The Teachings of Brigham Young", p. 34, states:
"The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this church."
This lesson manual was published the same year in which Hinckley denied that the church "taught or emphasized" the doctrine.
For the original poster's benefit, the following is from the "I have a question" section of the February 1982 issue of The Ensign magazine:
"Is President Lorenzo Snow's oft-repeated statement 'As man now is,
God once was; as God now is, man may be' accepted as official
doctrine by the Church?"
In response, Gerald N. Lund, Teacher Support Consultant for the Church
Education System answered, and summarized the situation by saying:
"It is clear that the teaching of President Lorenzo Snow is both
acceptable and accepted doctrine in the Church today." [The Ensign,
February 1982.]
More quotes:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits
enthroned in yonder heavens!...........It is the first principle of
the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God....yea, that
God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as
Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible....
[Joseph Smith, quoted by Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the
Prophet Joseph Smith, page 345-346.]
"He is our Father the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in
mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted Being
. It appears
ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous
traditions, that God has once been a finite being;
[Brigham Young,
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 333-334]
"The Gods who dwell in the Heaven from which our spirits came, are
beings who have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed
before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly
body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state. [Apostle
Orson Pratt, The Seer, 1853-1854, 20.]
"You and I--what helpless creatures are we! Such limited power we
have,
and how little can we control the wind and the waves and the storms!
We remember the numerous scriptures which, concentrated in a single
line, were stated by a former prophet, Lorenzo Snow: "As man is, God
once was; and as God is, man may become." [President Spencer W.
Kimball, Our Great Potential, Ensign, May 1977, page 49.]
| This morning, I turned on the car radio just in time to hear the voice of Gordon B. Hinckley solemnly imploring his listeners to know as he did, that "this is God's work." I was momentarily disoriented by the familiar, gravelly drone, but then I was brought back by the chirpy voice of uber-annoying Amanda Dickson reminding me that it's been a year since the man had passed away. She read copy that said Hinckley's 13 years as church president were marked by an unprecedented jump in temple building.
What struck me, however, is how much has changed since he left the scene. Hinckley was always conscious of the church's image and did as much as he could to assure the outside world that Mormons weren't "weird" and that the problematic parts of its history and theology were "behind us" and "in the past." Members of the church around the world spoke in reverent tones about how this one man had raised the church's profile and improved its public image.
But after his death, two things undid much of his PR work. First, Mitt Romney's presidential campaign led the media to investigate the reality behind the church's carefully crafted public face, and what they found was indeed "weird," Hinckley's protestations notwithstanding. People learned for the first time about temple garments, seer stones, institutionalized racism, and a whole host of facts the church had long tried to bury.
Then came Proposition 8. The church's clumsy and ham-fisted excursion into sexual politics has been a disaster for the church. They may have scored some points with right-wing Christian groups, but then those are the same people who have long demonized Mormons as "not Christian," anyway. So, few potential converts are among that crowd. For the rest of the US, however, the church showed its retrograde Victorian attitudes about sex and gender, and of course it aligned itself with the right-wing religious nut jobs. Either way, it did itsef no favors over the last year, except maybe to reassure members that it actually does stand for something beyond tithing.
Anyway, if Gordon B. Hinckley is at all conscious somewhere in the universe, it must be eating at him to see all of his work so completely unraveled.
| | | The Profit, Liar, And Prevaricator Spoke On The Topic Of Prophecy Frequently
Friday, Jun 19, 2009, at 11:02 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | "None of us knows what lies ahead. We may speculate, but we do not know."
"I do not know what the future holds."
"I don't know His will. I don't know how He operates."
"I don't know what he meant by that."
"I don't have the remotest idea what you mean."
"...we are given little understanding."
"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don't know a lot about it and I don't know that others know a lot about it."
| | | What Hinckley Said Regarding The Nigerian Temple And What Really Happened
Wednesday, Sep 30, 2009, at 08:58 AM
Original Author(s): Former Temple Worker
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | Past LDS President Hinckley, accepted as a prophet, seer and revelator during his lifetime by Mormon members, undertook the unique duties of his special mantra in uttering the inspired words used at the Aba, Nigerian LDS temple on August 7, 2005.
In part, Hinckley, inspired, stated:
"May all who look upon it do so with reverence and respect. May no unhallowed hand vandalize it in any way. May it always be sacred to those who are eligible to come within its walls. Save it from storm and tempest. We pray likewise for the associated structures, that all may stand together to serve Thy purposes."
(http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/aba/p...)
But within four short years, Hinckley's inspired utterances, priesthood power and prophetic prowess were called into question.
Quietly in June 2009, the LDS church closed its Nigerian Temple indefinitely with no public announcement made until the closure was leaked to the press. Not until August, 2009 did the LDS church announce the indefinite closing stating:
"'Incidences of violence in recent months in the area where the temple is situated are not necessarily related to the temple but could put church members at risk.' LDS church spokesman Scott Trotter stated."
(http://www.deseretnews.com/article/70...)
The incidents of violence referenced by the LDS spokesman were reported to the Ogden Standard Examiner newspaper by a Nigerian temple worker's e-mail. The e-mail reported that bullets from at least four AK-47 gunman struck either the temple doors or the"associated" guardhouse located on the temple grounds.
(http://www.deseretnews.com/article/70...)
So while inspired Hinckley promises protections from vandals "in any way," the truth is that Hinckley had no ability whatsoever to foresee the future or offer prophetic protection. After all, it was Hinckley, who after the infamous September 11, 2001 terrorists attacks gave the following assurance:
"Now we are at war. Great forces have been mobilized and will continue to be. Political alliances are being forged. We do not know how long this conflict will last. We do not know what it will cost in lives and treasure. We do not know the manner in which it will be carried out. It could impact the work of the Church in various ways."
"No one knows how long it will last. No one knows precisely where it will be fought. No one knows what it may entail before it is over. We have launched an undertaking the size and nature of which we cannot see at this time."
"I do not know what the future holds."
(Gordon B. Hinckley, “The Times in Which We Live,” October 2001 General Conference (Ensign, Nov. 2001, Page 72))
(http://lds.org/conference/talk/displa...)
"I do not know what the future holds." - Gee, you got that one right!
| | | "Well, It's Either True Or False. If It's False, We're Engaged In A Great Fraud." --- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley; Interview "The Mormons"; PBS Documentary, April 2007
Thursday, Nov 18, 2010, at 09:43 AM
Original Author(s): Beentheredunnthatexmo
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | "Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud." --- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley; Interview "The Mormons"; PBS Documentary, April 2007...
"Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true. And that's exactly where we stand, with a conviction in our hearts that it is true: that Joseph went into the Grove; that he saw the Father and the Son; that he talked with them; that Moroni came; that the Book of Mormon was translated from the plates; that the priesthood was restored by those who held it anciently. That's our claim. That's where we stand, and that's where we fall, if we fall. But we don't. We just stand secure in that faith."
- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, Interview "The Mormons"; PBS Documentary, April 2007
If any TBM ever really believed that GBH was a "Twoo Prophet" then that TBM would also have to conclude that yes...GBH called it correctly knowing that it is indeed a fraud that ANY semi-conscious 3rd-grader could figure out...yea even a lowly TBM!!!
This week (circa 4/27/07) Slate Magazine is publishing three excerpts from Christopher Hitchens' new book, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything...
Mormonism: A Racket Becomes A Religion
If the followers of the prophet Muhammad hoped to put an end to any future "revelations" after the immaculate conception of the Koran, they reckoned without the founder of what is now one of the world's fastest-growing faiths. And they did not foresee (how could they, mammals as they were?) that the prophet of this ridiculous cult would model himself on theirs. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–hereafter known as the Mormons–was founded by a gifted opportunist who, despite couching his text in openly plagiarized Christian terms, announced that "I shall be to this generation a new Muhammad" and adopted as his fighting slogan the words, which he thought he had learned from Islam, "Either the Al-Koran or the sword." He was too ignorant to know that if you use the word al you do not need another definite article, but then he did resemble Muhammad in being able only to make a borrowing out of other people's bibles.
In March 1826 a court in Bainbridge, New York, convicted a twenty-one-year-old man of being "a disorderly person and an impostor." That ought to have been all we ever heard of Joseph Smith, who at trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad gold-digging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or "necromantic" powers. However, within four years he was back in the local newspapers (all of which one may still read) as the discoverer of the "Book of Mormon." He had two huge local advantages which most mountebanks and charlatans do not possess. First, he was operating in the same hectically pious district that gave us the Shakers and several other self-proclaimed American prophets. So notorious did this local tendency become that the region became known as the "Burned-Over District," in honor of the way in which it had surrendered to one religious craze after another. Second, he was operating in an area which, unlike large tracts of the newly opening North America, did possess the signs of anancient history.
A vanished and vanquished Indian civilization had bequeathed a considerable number of burial mounds, which when randomly and amateurishly desecrated were found to contain not merely bones but also quite advanced artifacts of stone, copper, and beaten silver. There were eight of these sites within twelve miles of the underperforming farm which the Smith family called home. There were two equally stupid schools or factions who took a fascinated interest in such matters: the first were the gold-diggers and treasure-diviners who brought their magic sticks and crystals and stuffed toads to bear in the search for lucre, and the second those who hoped to find the resting place of a lost tribe of Israel. Smith's cleverness was to be a member of both groups, and to unite cupidity with half-baked anthropology.
The actual story of the imposture is almost embarrassing to read, and almost embarrassingly easy to uncover. (It has been best told by Dr. Fawn Brodie, whose 1945 book No Man Knows My History was a good-faith attempt by a professional historian to put the kindest possible interpretation on the relevant "events.") In brief, Joseph Smith announced that he had been visited (three times, as is customary) by an angel named Moroni. The said angel informed him of a book, "written upon gold plates," which explained the origins of those living on the North American continent as well as the truths of the gospel. There were, further, two magic stones, set in the twin breastplates Urim and Thummim of the Old Testament, that would enable Smith himself to translate the aforesaid book. After many wrestlings, he brought this buried apparatus home with him on September 21, 1827, about eighteen months after his conviction for fraud. He then set about producing a translation.
The resulting "books" turned out to be a record set down by ancient prophets, beginning with Nephi, son of Lephi, who had fled Jerusalem in approximately 600 BC and come to America. Many battles, curses, and afflictions accompanied their subsequent wanderings and those of their numerous progeny. How did the books turn out to be this way? Smith refused to show the golden plates to anybody, claiming that for other eyes to view them would mean death. But he encountered a problem that will be familiar to students of Islam. He was extremely glib and fluent as a debater and story-weaver, as many accounts attest. But he was illiterate, at least in the sense that while he could read a little, he could not write. A scribe was therefore necessary to take his inspired dictation. This scribe was at first his wife Emma and then, when more hands were necessary, a luckless neighbor named Martin Harris. Hearing Smith cite the words of Isaiah 29, verses 1112, concerning the repeated injunction to "Read," Harris mortgaged hisfarm to help in the task and moved in with the Smiths. He sat on one side of a blanket hung across the kitchen, and Smith sat on the other with his translation stones, intoning through the blanket. As if to make this an even happier scene, Harris was warned that if he tried to glimpse the plates, or look at the prophet, he would be struck dead.
Mrs. Harris was having none of this, and was already furious with the fecklessness of her husband. She stole the first hundred and sixteen pages and challenged Smith to reproduce them, as presumably–given his power of revelation–he could. (Determined women like this appear far too seldom in the history of religion.) After a very bad few weeks, the ingenious Smith countered with another revelation. He could not replicate the original, which might be in the devil's hands by now and open to a "satanic verses" interpretation. But the all-foreseeing Lord had meanwhile furnished some smaller plates, indeed the very plates of Nephi, which told a fairly similar tale. With infinite labor, the translation was resumed, with new scriveners behind the blanket as occasion demanded, and when it was completed all the original golden plates were transported to heaven, where apparently they remain to this day.
Mormon partisans sometimes say, as do Muslims, that this cannot have been fraudulent because the work of deception would have been too much for one poor and illiterate man. They have on their side two useful points: if Muhammad was ever convicted in public of fraud and attempted necromancy we have no record of the fact, and Arabic is a language that is somewhat opaque even to the fairly fluent outsider. However, we know the Koran to be made up in part of earlier books and stories, and in the case of Smith it is likewise a simple if tedious task to discover that twenty-five thousand words of the Book of Mormon are taken directly from the Old Testament. These words can mainly be found in the chapters of Isaiah available in Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews: The Ten Tribes of Israel in America. This then popular work by a pious loony, claiming that the American Indians originated in the Middle East, seems to have started the other Smith on his gold-digging in the first place. A further two thousand words of theBook of Mormon are taken from the New Testament. Of the three hundred and fifty "names" in the book, more than one hundred come straight from the Bible and a hundred more are as near stolen as makes no difference. (The great Mark Twain famously referred to it as "chloroform in print," but I accuse him of hitting too soft a target, since the book does actually contain "The Book of Ether.") The words "and it came to pass" can be found at least two thousand times, which does admittedly have a soporific effect. Quite recent scholarship has exposed every single other Mormon "document" as at best a scrawny compromise and at worst a pitiful fake, as Dr. Brodie was obliged to notice when she reissued and updated her remarkable book in 1973.
Like Muhammad, Smith could produce divine revelations at short notice and often simply to suit himself (especially, and like Muhammad, when he wanted a new girl and wished to take her as another wife). As a result, he overreached himself and came to a violent end, having meanwhile excommunicated almost all the poor men who had been his first disciples and who had been browbeaten into taking his dictation. Still, this story raises some very absorbing questions, concerning what happens when a plain racket turns into a serious religion before our eyes.
It must be said for the "Latter-day Saints" (these conceited words were added to Smith's original "Church of Jesus Christ" in 1833) that they have squarely faced one of the great difficulties of revealed religion. This is the problem of what to do about those who were born before the exclusive "revelation," or who died without ever having the opportunity to share in its wonders. Christians used to resolve this problem by saying that Jesus descended into hell after his crucifixion, where it is thought that he saved or converted the dead. There is indeed a fine passage in Dante's Inferno where he comes to rescue the spirits of great men like Aristotle, who had presumably been boiling away for centuries until he got around to them. (In another less ecumenical scene from the same book, the Prophet Muhammad is found being disemboweled in revolting detail.) The Mormons have improved on this rather backdated solution with something very literal-minded. They have assembled a gigantic genealogical database at a huge repository in Utah, and are busy filling it with the names of all people whose births, marriages, and deaths have been tabulated since records began. This is very useful if you want to look up your own family tree, and as long as you do not object to having your ancestors becoming Mormons. Every week, at special ceremonies in Mormon temples, the congregations meet and are given a certain quota of names of the departed to "pray in" to their church. This retrospective baptism of the dead seems harmless enough to me, but the American Jewish Committee became incensed when it was discovered that the Mormons had acquired the records of the Nazi "final solution," and were industriously baptizing what for once could truly be called a "lost tribe": the murdered Jews of Europe. For all its touching inefficacy, this exercise seemed in poor taste. I sympathize with the American Jewish Committee, but I nonetheless think that the followers of Mr. Smith should be congratulated for hitting upon even the most simpleminded technological solution to a problem that has defied solution ever since man first invented religion.
Or so it seems to me...
| Question: "Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?"
Hinckley: "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don't know a lot about it and I don't know that others know a lot about it."
"On the other hand, the whole design of the gospel is to lead us onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62); and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become!" - Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, General Conference, October 1994
"The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church." - Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young - Chapter 4: Knowing and Honoring the Godhead - LDS.org
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
"President Brigham Young taught the Latter-day Saints ... that God the Father was once a man on another planet who 'passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality.'" - Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young - Chapter 4: Knowing and Honoring the Godhead - LDS.org
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
"Joseph Smith taught: 'It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God.
He was once a man like us;
God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did." - Gospel Principles: Chapter 47: Exaltation - LDS.org
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
The seminary manual, Doctrine and Covenants Student Study Guide, teaches the Snow couplet along with Snow's belief that it was a "revelation" from "the Spirit of the Lord" and "a sacred communication."
http://seminary.lds.org/content/manuals/html/dc-ssg/dc-ssg-7.htm
The Aaronic Priesthood Manual 2 quotes the Snow couplet, approvingly, by all appearances -- and in Lesson 1, no less!
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
The Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual quotes the relevant portion of the King Follet Discourse after describing it as one of the "truths about the Godhead [that was] restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith."
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
The relevant portion(s) of the King Follet Discourse and/or the Lorenzo Snow couplet appear, without any indication that such teachings are false, questionable, speculative, opinion, or anything other than the gospel truth, in the following Church-published publications published by the Church, all available at LDS.org:
The Fulness of the Gospel: The Nature of the Godhead, Ensign, January 2006 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
The Quest for Spiritual Knowledge, New Era, January 2007 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
The King Follet Sermon, Ensign, April 1971 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Q&A;: Questions and Answers, New Era, April 1971 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Our Great Potential, Ensign, May 1977 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Gospel Art Picture Kit: Lorenzo Snow http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Decision, Ensign, May 1978 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Eliza R. Snow Poetry Contest Winners, Ensign, July 1989 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Funstuf - President Lorenzo Snow Crossword, Friend, March 2002 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Mormonad, New Era, June 1982 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Mirthright, Ensign, March 1983 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
When Our Children Go Astray, Ensign, February 1997 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
Strengthening the Family: Created in the Image of God, Male and Female, Ensign, January 2005 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
And then there's this thing:
I Have a Question: Is President Lorenzo Snow’s oft-repeated statement–“As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be”–accepted as official doctrine by the Church?, Ensign, February 1982 (answer: yes) http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
| | | Was Gordon B. Hinckley Referring To Past Profits/Leaders When He Said This?
Wednesday, Mar 16, 2011, at 08:32 AM
Original Author(s): Riverman
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | “I am told that racial slurs and denigrating remarks are sometimes heard among us. I remind you that no [one] who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Christ.
“We are members of the Church of our Lord. We have an obligation to Him as well as to ourselves and others.”
President Gordon B. Hinckley (19102008), “The Need for Greater Kindness,” Liahona and Ensign, May 2006, 58, 60.
This quote is also in this months Ensign, it is such a farce to deny the racist past of the church 'leaders'.
Below are some quotes compiled on the I4M website, link below
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.
This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed."
Brigham Young - Journal of Discourses
"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."
"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."
"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."
Mark E Peterson
"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.
The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."
Brigham Young - Journal Of Discourses
http://www.i4m.com/think/comments/mor...
| | | I Don't Know That We Teach It. I Don't Know That We Emphasize It. I Haven't Heard It Discussed For A Long Time
Friday, Dec 16, 2011, at 01:29 PM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: GORDON B. HINCKLEY - SECTION 3 -Guid- | ↑ | I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time.
On August 4, 1997, Time magazine had an article about Mormons and words from Gordon B. Hinckley.
Q: Just another related question that comes up is the statements in the King Follet discourse by the Prophet.
A: Yeah
Q: ... about that, God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?
A: I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it.
How could the Hinckley say "I don't know"? It was and still is taught. You can read it in the LDS manual called "Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith"
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
It is below the paragraph heading "When we comprehend the character of God, we comprehend ourselves and know how to approach Him."
“God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make Himself visible,–I say, if you were to see Him today, you would see Him like a man in form–like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.
"
This manual is not an obsolete book. The lds website even says how to use the book.
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgn...
"This book can be used to teach at home or at church."
The website formerly known as Mormon Defense League says that Mormons do not teach or excuse dishonesty.
http://mormonvoices.org/656/dishonest...
Aren't Mormons supposed to follow the prophet? What about Gordon B. Hinckley? He set a fine example. If Mormons want to appear to be honest, just say "I don't know that we teach it" and dishonesty will be excused.
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