The Largest Repository Of Ex-Mormon Material In The World
Containing 3,240 Articles Spanning 205 Topics
Online Since January 1, 2005
|
PLEASE NOTE:
If you have reached this page from an outside source such as an
Internet Search or forum referral, please note that this page
(the one you just landed on)
is an archive containing articles on
"ROBERT KIRBY".
This website,
The Mormon Curtain
- is a website that blogs the Ex-Mormon world. You can
read
The Mormon Curtain FAQ
to understand the purpose of this website.
CLICK HERE to visit the main page of The Mormon Curtain.
|
|
|
ROBERT KIRBY
Total Articles:
8
Topics surrounding The Salt Lake Tribune's Robert Kirby.
|
|
I am in the middle of of an important church book that explains a lot. The title grabbed me because at first I thought it was my unauthorized biography.
Turns out that Why Men Hate Going To Church by David Murrow is only partly about me. The book decries shrinking male church attendance in general.
Look around any congregation on Sunday, and you'll find more women than men. According to Murrow, it's because church music, service and worship are slanted toward the feminine.
Being a guy who frequently hates going to church, I read Murrow's book to find out why I am thus afflicted. There are a number of reasons, but I already knew the main one.
Church is boring.
Yeah, it is. I've been to a lot of church, and mainly it's all about conformity. Any serious discussion involves finding a new way to agree with something you've heard 500 times before.
Church is not suited for a guy with ADD who is deeply suspicious of authority and believes that convention is just another word for hypnotism.
Click Here For Original Link Or Thread.
| Lots of prayers were said on behalf of Brennan Hawkins, the Boy Scout who wandered away from an activity in the Uinta Mountains and stayed lost for four days.
After her son was found, Jody Hawkins told the news media, ''We are here to unequivocally tell you that the heavens are not closed, prayers are answered and children come home."
She said these words within figurative earshot of Kevin Bardsley, who helped search for Brennan and whose son Garrett has been missing in the same mountains for more than a year.
No doubt the Hawkins' announcement went straight to the core of other people whose children have yet to come home, people every bit as deserving of a positive response to their prayers but who seem to be getting no response.
I'm willing to take the Hawkins family's word that God answered their prayers. But there's a flip side. If getting what you pray for is proof the heavens aren't closed, what is it when you don't get what you pray for?
Click Here For Original Link Or Thread.
Editor Note: I love to stir cog-diss in my Mormon friends. I said to a Mormon co-worker today that mankind should get together and judge God. It seems that all religions put God as a blamless person. If a child died, it was the will of God. If a child didn't die, it was a the will of God. He said, "Sometimes, God doesn't interfere." To which I replied, "Not one sparrow falls to the ground without God knowing about it." And he brain farts. He states, "Judging god would be like trying to change the laws of physics." Interesting that he will not even allow his mind to possibly fathom the ability for man to judge God. I love it.
| | Kirby: Katrina Is The Result Of Someone Not Behaving Article Archived: Sep 19, 2005, at 07:07 AM Stored Under Topic: ROBERT KIRBY Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION Original Author Of Article: Anonymous | | |
My wife should probably apologize to the people of New Orleans. The destruction caused by Hurricane Katrina is her fault.
I warned her that something bad would happen if she didn't stop bugging me about mowing the backyard. It says right in the Bible (somewhere) that a woman should obey her husband, in this case righteously leaving him alone when told to.
And because the Bible also says the wicked will be punished, one thing led to another and God visited his wrath upon the world. I keep reminding her of this but she continues to demand that I get busy.
It's not too late to get your own piece of Hurricane Katrina. After all, there has to be a reason for it rather than just Mother Nature, right? Why not blame it on someone you don't like?
Lots of people think so. According to a story in the Washington Post, the disaster is not because of smart-aleck wives but rather because Louisiana wouldn't stop performing abortions.
Steve Lefemine of Columbia Christians for Life says, "God judged New Orleans for the sin of shedding innocent blood through abortion," and "Greater divine judgment is coming upon America unless we repent of the national sin of abortion."
Continue Reading - http://sltrib.com/faith/ci_3036569
| From Robert Kirby's page:
"But I miss the actual LDS ward houses of my youth. They were pagan places by today's designs, having as they did stained-glass windows, murals, the occasional effigies and odd warrens. It was uncorrelated architecture at its best.
These things have all been banished. Stained glass, for example, seemed to leave us right around the time of McConkie's Mormon Doctrine, which pretty much spelled out that stained glass had its place - in the devil's church."
http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_323234...
| | Kirby: When It Comes To Dissent, Use Your Brain Article Archived: Jun 19, 2006, at 07:02 AM Stored Under Topic: ROBERT KIRBY Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION Original Author Of Article: Robert Kirby | | |
From Columnist Robert Kirby:
Following the direction of LDS Church leaders, thousands of Mormons called their senators last week to express support for a bill upholding traditional marriage.
Actually, according to the senators themselves, only about 4,000 Mormons called. That's still a lot of Mormons, but not as many as you might think considering how many of us there are. Obviously, most of us didn't pick up the phone.
I agree with 67.3 percent of the stuff I hear in church. I'm basically indifferent to 14.1 percent. Meanwhile, I disagree with 8.2 percent. The rest, along with a 5 percent plus or minus margin of error, I'm still thinking about.
This isn't a popular take on things in the LDS Church, where church leader utterances are regarded by most as end-of-discussion fact. Except of course, when we don't feel like it
Human beings were created with individual brains. If you always agree with someone else - no matter how much in charge they might be - you probably aren't using yours as much as you might think.
http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_394766...
| From the Salt Lake Tribune:
Last Saturday's column about the Mormon/non-Mormon divide in Utah generated feedback that, I believe, points out the true nature of the problem. Stupidity is no respecter.
The response from non-Mormons was decidedly bipolar over whether Mormons make great or horrible neighbors.
It didn't take long before I began to suspect that the divide in Utah has far less to do with theology than it does psychology. Secure and tolerant people reach across the gulf. Bigots and fools condemn out of hand.
I could be part of the problem. One reader, apparently LDS, objected to my observation that Mormons are so numerous in Utah it is impossible to drive anywhere without running over one.
OK, I probably should have phrased that in a kinder, gentler way. Maybe I should have said it's impossible to swing a dead cat in Utah without hitting a Mormon, or that we're thicker than thieves. However, the response from cat owners and thieves would have been worse.
I'm thinking what we need are some "I Brake for Mormons" bumper stickers.
http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_405463...
| From the Salt Lake Tribune:
Two weeks ago, a kid got up in church and announced to the ward, "I'd like to bear my tithing."
He meant to say, of course, that he would like to bear his testimony. But it's such a small LDS gospel distinction that nobody bothered to call him on it.
It happens in LDS wards on the first Sunday of every month, particularly those with mobs of kids. Fast & Testimony meeting features a line of small children slogging to the microphone to score some points.
I remember the first time I got up. I was 9 and terrified just short of incontinence.
In a breathless rush I said that I knew the church was true (a lie), that I was thankful for my brothers and sisters (another lie) and that school was good (a whopper).
It wasn't the last time I lied in church. I performed similar public services over the years, parroting things I'd heard adults say. As I got older though, I tried to be a little more honest about my faith.
Today, I think it's a bit disingenuous to push kids to say they know something when they don't. It's OK to encourage them toward public gratitude and the like, but I wonder about the efficacy of insisting that a kid be truthful everywhere but in church.
http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_420455...
Infymus Note: Unfortunately Kirby, Apostle Boyd K. Packer has stated that to lie about your testimony is appropriate. In the talk The Candle Of The Lord, Boyd stated, "A testimony is found in the bearing of it." Or in other words, lie until you believe it.
| Ben and I hadn't seen each other in the 10 years since the LDS Church excommunicated him. We stood next to each other at a downtown crosswalk for more than a minute before realizing who the other was.
Maybe it was the fact that Ben seemed happy that threw me. According to church lore, he's supposed to be miserable, a spiritless outcast slouching from pillar to post with nary a moment's peace. He should look like Gollum by now.
Instead, Ben was a few pounds heavier, smiling, and holding the hand of the woman he's been married to for 30-plus years. We went to a restaurant and caught up.
Since his excommunication, Ben has defied church odds. He has not been divorced, driven to drink, financially ruined or infested with vermin. He's not even particularly distraught. He regrets what happened but seems OK with it now.
Ben supports his wife in her church callings and occasionally drops in to see how the old crowd is doing. But he's not interested in hooking up again.
Hmm, maybe Ben is just pretending to be happy. Maybe deep down his eviction from the Lord's church has him writhing in a pit of despair.
As a young missionary, I believed excommunication was the worst thing that could happen to a person. It was the mission form of a ghost story, tales of people who wandered the Earth damned because some ultimate transgression had cost them their
membership.
Excommunication can be that awful for some people. The few I saw it happen to back then were certainly upset about it. It looked and sounded awful enough to keep me in line.
But I'm older now, and I've seen that it doesn't work that way for everyone. We'd like to be able to predict another person's misery or happiness, but we can't.
That doesn't stop us from trying. I've heard repeatedly in church that the only way to true happiness is through "the church" or "the gospel" or "total obedience" to some other ecclesiastically mandated operation.
Maybe happiness is that way for the person who's saying it. But it automatically follows, then, that most of the world is unhappy, that it's relatively impossible for Hindus or Catholics to know true joy.
That's a pretty conceited way to look at the world - that you have it figured out and 99 percent of everyone else hasn't. It's astonishing how well they hide their wretchedness.
I'm no expert (according to every authority figure in my life), but happiness seems to depend on making good choices, a process that's available to everyone, including those who don't think like us and those we don't like to think about.
http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_576836...
| |